Marrying for love – II

Priya* works as domestic help. She washes vessels and clothes, sweeps and swabs floors, chops vegetables and performs other housekeeping chores daily in three houses in Madurai, Tamil Nadu. In conversation, she shares her experience of marrying outside caste. Translated excerpts from an interview dated 15.07.2011. Read the first part here

We moved to the area next to one my parents were in. They would look at me but they wouldn’t talk. After I became pregnant, a year later, my father would come and talk to me. My father-in-law wouldn’t accept us. ‘They filed a complaint in the police station,’ he said, about my parents, and refused to let us into the house. Then I said, ‘I had a reason to write and give that I don’t want my parents, if I hadn’t given in writing, they would have beaten you up. Now when my parents come of their own accord and talk to me, I can’t refuse them. When I said this, he asked ‘Don’t you want your husband?’ Both of them started fighting. I said, ‘I won’t visit them if you don’t want me to but I definitely will talk to my parents.’ After my oldest son was born, they started visiting and talking. My mother-in-law would also talk a little. After a year, these problems were solved.

People appreciated that I had taken a stand at this young age. ‘Others would have been afraid and given up their love,’ people told me and started encouraging me. Friends were good to me. Only my parents’ relatives refused to accept me. They would stand on the road and talk to me but they won’t come into the house, they won’t eat, they won’t even drink water because we were SC. When we went to their house, they would take care of us. But they would never eat in our house.

My mother’s friend’s daughter was also my friend. She fell in love and ran away with her lover. They came and asked me, ‘Where is Manjula? She was your friend. Did she tell you anything?’ I hadn’t even known that she was in love. She had loved within her Parayar  caste only but they didn’t accept it. They said, ‘Why should she choose that boy?’ She refused to come home and married that boy. Her in-laws looked after her well. She started going to work and she is happy now.
…

Please ask all parents to let their children marry whoever they want. Please write that very strongly. If they give their consent, there will be no problems. Most of the problems that happen in love marriages are because the parents don’t consent. Tell parents to stop clinging to caste.

…

Now my oldest son is studying for his degree by correspondence. He is also a photographer in a studio. He is of marriagable age and he is also in love. We know about it. We told him about all the difficulties we faced. We told him to marry the girl we find.

After we married, there was opposition on both sides. My father-in-law chased us away. ‘Let me see how you will survive, I cannot give you food,’ he said. They caused lot of difficulties. My son says, ‘What would you have known at 15? I am 22. I can take my decisions. That girl is also 19.’ I told him, they would face difficulties. The girl is Servar caste (a Thevar sub-caste), we are SC. We cannot face any problems if they should arise. I told the girl this also. She said, ‘I can face any problems that come. I know you are SC. Its not like I  didn’t know when we were in love.’

I have told my children these things, they should know the problems I faced. The other three are in school.

If people should fall in love, they should have parental consent. Running away is difficult. You will only have the clothes on your back. My younger mother-in-law and I were pregnant at the same time. They would not make food in the morning. I would have to starve till evening. I was struggling for a few years. They did not feel that I had come away from home, that they should look after me. They felt that they should give food only when we give money. My husband was plying a rickshaw then. I was 15, working in a school as an aayah.
…

Earlier work used to be divided by caste – people who wash clothes have to come only by the back door. They could not drink water in the same tumbler, employers would ask them to drink water from the tap. Now it’s not like that – people of all castes – Konar, Servar, Nadar, – all come for housework. Employers are also better now. In some places, work is still divided by caste. In the 15-20 years since I started doing housework, people have also started treating us as human beings.
…

The area I lived – Ponnaandi Veethi – was an SC street only. It was supposed to be for the people who burned corpses. There was also a ‘Nadar Compound’ on the same street – the really poor people lived there, mostly SC people like Sakkiliar, Parayar, Kuravar, also Nadar and Muslim were all there – but it was called Nadar Compound only.

When we look for houses for rent, they ask for caste. SC people could only ask SC houseowners. Things are changing now. In the house I am in now, the owner is Kallar. Recently when we went house hunting, I told the house-owner that I was Nadar. That house-owner is Konar. He said ok. He knew my husband, knew he was SC. AFTER we came and set up house there, he made it a caste issue. We had to vacate the house. The older people are like that, middle-aged people like us don’t bother much. The older people cling to caste. My relatives still won’t take food from us.

***

*Name changed on request

Marrying for love – I

Priya* works as domestic help. She washes vessels and clothes, sweeps and swabs floors, chops vegetables and performs other housekeeping chores daily in three houses in Madurai, Tamil Nadu. In conversation, she shares her experience of marrying outside caste. Translated excerpts from an interview dated 15.07.2011

I was born in Madurai. My parents are from the same place. I had a love marriage. So I married and settled in the same town. I am 40 years old. I have four children. My husband drives an auto.

I had a carefree childhood. I would ride my cycle and roam around like a boy. After I had my period, things changed. My father would not mind me much. My mother would say I should not cross the threshold of the house. I did not like school much either. So I would stay at home. But it was difficult being cooped up. I would go out with friends immediately after my mother left and get back just before she got back. If she came back before I did, she would grab me by my hair and thrash me. She would say, ‘Why did you go? I told you not to. Why do you keep company with those children? Don’t you have brains? You have become a big girl now.’ As she said this, I thought ‘Why are my parents are talking to me like this?’ Then the thought came to me that I should fall in love, choose my husband. There was my neighbour’s son. I knew they were SC, I chose to love him.

I knew about my caste from when I was a little child. My parents would say ‘We are Nadar’. When they told us not to talk to people of lower castes, my parents will tell me this. They will say ‘Don’t talk to people who don’t have huts, they will go the wrong way.’ Whenever my mother said this, I would go and play and talk with those children only. My parents changed me. Then the thought came to me, my thought to love.

I fell in love with my neighbour’s son. He loved me too. I used to go to their house and talk. My elder brother used to visit them also. I used to talk to his parents very well, but not to him. We did not get to roam around or go to theatres or do things like that. We used to look at each other and smile, we didn’t even talk much. I was 15, I had been of age for 2 years. He was 19.

He was thick friends with my elder brother. He would not come to my house. Because he was of lower caste, they wouldn’t allow him into the house. My brother and I used to go to their house. I used to go without my mother’s knowledge, my brother went with my parent’s knowledge.

My family came to know that I was in love. My husband’s name is Duraipandi. I had scratched his name ‘Durai’ with a safety pin on my arm. Another neighbour saw this while I was filling water at the tap. It was the government tap only, where everyone came to take water. They told my father and he started beating me. He said ‘You know what caste they are. They are of lower caste. You have gone and loved him.’ He began torturing me and beating me. Even my other neighbours (of the same caste) started beating me after my mother told them to look after me when she went to out to work.

Then I thought, ‘See how they are humiliating me. I had only felt what anyone of that age would have felt, maybe a little earlier, that’s all. Why should they humiliate me like this?’ The entire street knew by now. We still saw each other but did not talk. In our street, they started to say that I was pregnant. Talk went in that direction. My father said, ‘They say this. Let your uncle come, I will make him beat you. If you haven’t done anything wrong, why will people say such things?’

Then I thought my uncle is also going to humiliate and beat me, and I went to see my mother-in-law. I told her ‘They are saying things like this. My family has come to know that I am in love. Please take me away, please marry the two of us.’ My husband said ‘No, this is not right. We are not old enough, go home.’ He came to beat me too. My mother-in-law had now begun to desire that I marry him. She said, ‘Let us not worry about age’ and she took me away to another village where they had relatives. They finished the wedding there. We were there for a day.

When my mother-in-law and father-in-law returned, my parents immediately filed a complaint saying they had taken me away under false pretences. ‘They are SC. Why will she go with them? We are nadar,’ they said. My in-laws brought us back. In the police station, the sub-inspector(SI) asked ‘You are not old enough. What do you say about this?’ I told him ‘Sir, it is true that I am not old enough. But they have disgraced me. Even if I go back, this disgrace will not leave me. Even if I should be married and bear children to another man, it won’t change. I will stay with this man’ ‘Don’t you want your parents?’ they asked. At that time, I said ‘I don’t want my parents. These people are my parents. My husband is everything to me.’ They asked me to give this in writing. The SI himself asked ‘Do you know what caste they are?’ I said ‘I know. I know they are SC. I knew when I was in love too.’ Then he said, ‘You know they are SC. If you have a child later, will you give your child in marriage to such a family?’ I said ‘I will give my child in marriage to an SC person only. I don’t look at differences like that, even if you scratch an SC person you will find the same red blood, even for a high caste person you will find the same red blood,’ like this, I told the SI. Then my father brought some people he knew. They took me to a separate room and said ‘You don’t need that boy. He is SC. It will become a problem later.’

My father-in-law had seven wives. So, they were worried at home. I told them, ‘That man might be like that. My husband is not.’ They said, ‘Let that boy go. We will marry you to someone else right away’. I said ‘I didn’t do this out of a desire to marry. I have been disgraced, I cannot continue to live on that street. That is why we married at this age’

We gave this in writing and came away and finished a registered marriage also.

We had to come back and live on that same street. We lived in another area for a while. It was an unknown place and it was scary at night. Both of us were very young. So we came back to the same area.
…

In the next part, Priya* talks about her married life, ponders the pros and cons of marrying for love vs. marrying for caste and shares her son’s blossoming love story.

*Name changed on request

A Dalit view on climate change

Article dated 17.12.2009 from the International Dalit Solidarity Network website

Three Dalit women from Andhra Pradesh took part in a protest outside the conference area of the UN climate talks by ceremonially burning their conference badges. They felt that their voices had not been heard in the COP15 process.

When Narsamma Masanagari, Manjula Tammali and Sammamma Begari travelled from India to Copenhagen to take part in the UN conference on climate change, they wanted answers to some pressing questions.

“We came to find out if there is a real struggle against climate change, if the conference would include small and marginalised people like us, or if it is only for the rich?” Narsamma Masanagari from the village of Pastapur in Andhra Pradesh told this website during her stay in Copenhagen.

On the morning of 16 December, the three women presented their own answers to these questions outside the Bella Center where the COP15 talks are being held. Ceremonially burning their accreditation badges, a group of Indian activists protested against the lack of community participation in the climate talks.

“Climate communities must have a place in such a forum. It is important to bring in the voices of the small and the excluded. If you really want to understand climate change, then come and talk to people like us,” said Narsamma, who has felt the impact of changing weather patterns on her own farming community.

As Dalits, the three women already know a lot about being excluded. Nevertheless, by organising themselves and many other women in their communities, they have managed to gain respect and, to some extent, break out from a cycle of oppression and discrimination. They feel that they are owed the same level of respect by world leaders.

***

Read this article on the ISDN website here. There is also an interview with the women…

“Climate change does make it more difficult. If there is drought or unseasonal rainfall, the first thing that suffers is crop cultivation. If there are no crops, it is difficult for us,” says Sammamma Begari, a Dalit woman from the village of Bidakanne.

Speaking through an interpreter in her own language, Telugu, she found time, in the middle of a busy day of demonstrations and meetings, to talk to this website at the alternative Climate Forum for NGOs in central Copenhagen.

The consequences of climate change affect small farmers more than big ones, the women contend. They also claim that the farming methods they use are more sustainable than the industrial methods applied by big farmers.

“Upper caste farmers use machines to plough their land, heightening the climate crisis with fertilizer and other things. Our impact on the climate is much smaller. Larger farmers grow money, we grow food,” says Narsamma Managari, another activist.

Protest at COP15

On 16 December, they women took part in a protest outside the COP15 conference centre. They believe that the poor and the excluded have had too little say in the talks. There are similarities between this exclusion and the type of discrimination they suffer as Dalits in India.

The degree of discrimination varies. In Narsamma Managaris home village of Pastapur, she has managed to gain the respect of the community. In other, more remote, villages, such as Edulapalli, where the third woman, Manjula Tammali, lives, things are different.

“In my village, we are not allowed entry into temples. In tea shops there is a system of separate glasses for Dalits, and we are not allowed to enter houses of upper caste people. Dalits are also left with specific occupations, such as digging graves for everyone in the village. It makes me angry, but it has helped to be part of this organisation,” she says.

Manjula is referring to the Deccan Development Society (DDS), a grassroots organisation working with women’s groups in about 75 villages in Medak District. All in all, about 5,000 women, most of them Dalits, are involved in DDS programmes. Manjula, Narsamma and Sammamma work with the DDS Community Media Trust and have brought digital video cameras to Copenhagen to document the COP15 event.

Grassroots work has enabled the women to take charge of their own lives and be less entrenched in centuries-old patterns of caste prejudice. In a number of communities, Dalit women are regarded with respect by their fellow villagers.

“We have shown that we are organised and have taken control of our own agriculture. We have no obligations towards bigger farmers. And through lots of activities, we have demonstrated the leadership skills of Dalit women. Dalits have become village council members and taken leadership of villages. If there is a conflict that needs to be resolved, our women are on the panel,” Narsamma Masanagari points out.

The women have fought hard for their rights, and their struggle has gone through different phases. They had to combat discrimination based on caste as well as gender. Now their different struggles have merged into what they call ‘food sovereignty activism’. In her lifetime, Narsamma Masanagari has seen a lot of changes.

“When I was a child, my mother was a bonded labourer for an upper caste household. I used to stand watch over the landlord’s fields. We have grown a lot since then.”

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Read the interview on the ISDN site here.

Durga Sob: Nepal’s trailblazing Dalit feminist

This interview-report first appeared in the New Internationalist, May 2010, Issue 432. You can find it online here [pdf file].

Durga Sob was just 10 when she realized she was from the Dalit, or ‘untouchable’, class of Nepal: ‘I drank from a water pot that other people used, and by sharing this water, I’d made it ‘unclean’. I was screamed at and chased away. I told my mother and she said: “God made us Dalit, that’s just the way it is.” It was then I knew the pain of being a Dalit, and had to do something to change things.’ The injustices experienced during her childhood in the remote village of Silgadi in western Nepal inspired Durga to found the Feminist Dalit Organization (FEDO) to fight against caste and gender discrimination.

“I felt it was no good if I were the only one who was educated; I had to educate others”

Nepal is one of the poorest countries in Asia and Dalits represent around 20 per cent of the population. The term ‘Dalit’, chosen by the community itself, means ‘broken people’, and although caste discrimination was outlawed in 1963, its practice remains widespread. Dalits are considered polluting and suffer an apartheid of segregation: ‘[We] are often denied proper housing, access to healthcare and other public services, like use of water taps and temples,’ says Durga. ‘Dalit women suffer a triple oppression, and are at the bottom of the pile. As women they’re second-class citizens anyway, but as Dalits they’re subjected to social exclusion, and as the poorest group in Nepal, they experience chronic poverty.’ Indeed, more than 90 per cent of Dalit women live below the poverty line and life expectancy is just 51 years, as opposed to a national average of 59. Education is also denied to many Dalits. Around 80 per cent of Dalit women are illiterate and the first milestone Durga achieved was being admitted to school: ‘My mother, a wonderful woman, encouraged me, despite everyone saying she was wasting her money.’ Dalit girls traditionally work at home and are married young. Despite continual discrimination and bullying, Durga completed school by the age of 16. Realizing that she was equal to her classmates, and again breaking Dalit rank, she started teaching English to other Dalits: ‘I felt it was no good if I were the only one who was educated; I had to educate others. I would bring all the girls to my home and teach them. After this, many went to school and completed their education.’

Moving to Kathmandu when she was 19 years old, Durga started working for ActionAid and it was here that she met the US feminist Robin Morgan and told her about the situation for Dalit women. Although there were many projects which were working to empower Nepali women, none had been initiated to address Dalit women’s specific issues. Morgan encouraged Durga to form FEDO in 1994. The early days were difficult: ‘We needed seven Dalit women on the board before we could register FEDO and it was hard to find educated and committed Dalit women, they were so oppressed.’ Moreover, women in urban areas did not wish to expose themselves as Dalit. Durga also experienced prejudice from other women activists: ‘High caste women would not accept us and I was routinely excluded.’

Durga was, however, used to chronic discrimination and continued to strive for inclusion: ‘Initially, FEDO was small and focused on informal education and income-generation programmes. We began our work in the Lalitput district and held literacy classes for 50 elderly women. These were successful, so later we focused on formal education, health, sanitation, advocacy and awareness.’  FEDO now works in 45 districts in Nepal and has 40,000 members. Some 3,000 Dalit children were sent to school after FEDO’s school enrolment campaign. In addition, 50 Dalit health workers have been trained, 5,000 women have benefited from microfinance programmes, and 2,000 Dalit women’s groups have been established. Nepal is, however, a country in recovery after 10 years of a civil war which ended in 2007, and because of their perceived association with the Maoist guerrillas, the Dalit community bore the brunt of the violence. Dalit women are particularly vulnerable to all forms of gender violence, including domestic abuse, trafficking for prostitution and rape as a weapon of war. In response to this, FEDO began working in partnership with the British-based organization Womankind to establish healing and support units for Dalit women survivors of violence. There are now four centres and almost 1,800 women have benefited: ‘The healing centres have seen an overwhelming response and for the first time, Dalit women have been able to break the taboo of talking about the violence they’ve experienced. Many now understand that violence doesn’t have to be a part of their everyday lives.’

Also crucial to empowerment is education around rights, and FEDO makes use of CEDAW, the international bill of rights for women, as legislative support: ‘We provide training for women about how to file cases to police to ensure that they have equal access to justice,’ explains Durga. ‘Women often immediately practise what they have learnt and CEDAW is seen as a basis on which to fight back against oppression. This is a vast shift in perception for Dalit women.’

The current post-war situation in Nepal, as well as being a time of challenge, also represents an opportunity for the community. Following the 2006 Peace Agreement, political parties are currently formulating a new constitution for the country: ‘Up until now, in terms of participation and representation, there have been no Dalit women in positions of power. However, this is changing: 25 Dalit women have been elected as members of the Constituent Assembly and this is one my happiest achievements. The constitution-making process is a unique opportunity to ensure that the constitution will guarantee equality and, for the first time in Nepali history, Dalit women are represented in political processes.’ Durga’s pride is palpable: ‘It’s taken 15 years, and it’s still early days, but FEDO has created an environment where Dalit women have started to see themselves as respectable citizens.’

***
Durga Sob spoke with Claire Colley for the New Internationalist (NI). According to the description here [pdf file], the NI workers’ co-operative exists to report on issues of world poverty and inequality; to focus attention on the unjust relationship between the powerful and the powerless worldwide; to debate and campaign for the radical changes necessary to meet the basic needs of all; and to bring to life the people, the ideas and the action in the fight for global justice.

‘In six months of being president, I have only sat twice in the chair’

M. Ponnusamy, May 2008

Read the full article in Tamil here.
முழு கட்டுரை இங்கே
…
எத்தனையோ தலித் மக்களை காவு வாங்கிய நெல்லை மண் – மீண்டும் தொடர்ந்து காவு வாங்கிக் கொண்டிருக்கிறது. கடந்த நான்கு மாதத்திற்குள் இரண்டு தலித் பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவர்கள் சாதி இந்துக்களால் திட்டமிட்டு கொலை செய்யப்பட்டுள்ளனர். எதிர்த்து கேள்வி கேட்ட காரணத்திற்காக 22.11.2006 அன்று நக்கலமுத்தன்பட்டி பஞ்சயாத்து தலைவர் ப. ஜக்கன் துணைத் தலைவர் ரெஜினாமேரி உதவியோடு கூலிப்படைகளால் படுகொலை செய்யப்பட்டார். இந்த சம்பவம் நடந்த அடுத்த இரண்டு மாதங்களிலேயே குருவி குளம் ஊராட்சி ஒன்றியத்தைச் சேர்ந்த மருதன் கிணறு பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவர் சேர்வாரன் 19.2.2007 அன்று அதிகாலையில், அதே கிராமத்தின் சாதி இந்துக்களால் படுகொலை செய்யப்பட்டார்.

The earth of Nellai district, that has received so many dalit lives as sacrifice, continues to receive these sacrifices. In the last four months, two Dalit panchayat presidents have been killed by scheming caste Hindus. For having asked questions, on 22.11.2006, Nakkulamuthanpatti Panchayat President P. Jaggan was murdered by wage labourers assisted by vice-president Regina Mary. Within two months of this incident, in the Kuruvikulam Panchayat Union, Maruthankinaru Panchayat President Servaaran was killed in the dawn of 19.2.2007 by caste Hindus of the same village.

பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவரான பிறகும்கூட சேர்வாரன், பஞ்சாயத்து அலுவலகத்தைப் பெருக்கி, கழுவி, சுத்தம் செய்யும் துப்புரவுப் பணி யாளராகவே இருக்க கட்டாயப்படுத்தப்பட்டுள்ளார். வட்டார ஊராட்சி அலுவலகத்திலிருந்து அதிகாரிகள் வந்தபோது, சனவரி மாதம் நடந்த கூட்டத்தில்தான் ஒரே ஒருமுறை மட்டும் அவர் நாற்காலியில் உட்கார்ந்து இருக்கிறார். தன்னைக் கேட்காமல் முடிவெடுப்பதால் உதவி தலைவரும், அவருடைய கணவரும், ‘ஏண்டா சக்கிலியப் பயலே உனக்கெல்லாம் நாங்க பதில் சொல்லணுமோ, நீ கையெழுத்துப் போட்டாதான் நாங்க வேலை செய்யணுமா, இருலே உன்ன என்ன செய்யறேன்னு பாரு’ என்று தொடர்ந்து மிரட்டப்பட்டுள்ளார். ‘எந்த நேரமும் ஆபத்து வரலாம், எந்த நேரமும் என்னைக் கொன்னாலும், கொன்னுருவாங்கன்னு’ தன் மனைவி மற்றும் மகளிடம் கூறியுள்ளார் சேர்வாரன். அது அப்படியே நடந்தேறியது.

Even after becoming Panchayat President, Servaaran was forced to remain the sweeper at the Panchayat Officer, sweeping, swabbing and cleaning up the place. He was allowed to sit in the chair only once, when the block development officers came and held a meeting in January. When he took decisions on his own, the vice-president and her husband continually threatened and abused him, ‘Hey you Sakkili fellow, do we have to answer to you? Do we have to have to work only after you sign? See what we will do to you!’ Servaaran told his wife and daughter, ‘Danger can approach at any time, I might be killed at any time’. It happened as he predicted.

இந்தப் படுகொலைகள் குறித்து மனித உரிமை அமைப்புகள் மற்றும் மனித உரிமை மேம்பாட்டு ஆராய்ச்சி அமைப்பு, தலித் விடுதலைக்கான அமைப்பு ஆகியவை சார்பாக வழக்கறிஞர் கமலா கஸ்தூரி, கிருஷ்ணவேணி, பரதன், முத்துமாரி ஆகியோர் அடங்கிய உண்மையறியும் குழு – “சேர்வாரன் மரணம் இயற்கையல்ல, திட்டமிட்ட படுகொலைதான்’ என்று கூறியுள்ளது. 30.3.2007 அன்று சென்னையில் பத்திரிகையாளர்களை சந்தித்த உண்மையறியும் குழுவினர் பல அதிர்ச்சியூட்டும் தகவல்களைப் பகிர்ந்து கொண்டனர். இதோடு உயிருக்கு உத்திரவாதமின்றி, பயம் கலந்த முகத்தோடு தாங்கள் நடத்தப் படுகின்ற நிலையைப் பகிர்ந்து கொண்ட தேவர்குளம் பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவர் ச. தங்கவேலு அவர்களையும், நவநீத கிருஷ்ணபுரம் பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவர் சூ. குருசாமி அவர்களையும் – ‘தலித் முரசு’ சார்பில் சந்தித்தபோது, தங்களுடைய ஆதங்கத்தைப் பகிர்ந்து கொண்டனர்:

On behalf of human rights organisations, Human Rights Advocacy and Research Foundation and Human Rights Forum for Dalit Liberation, advocate Kamala Kasthuri, Krishnaveni, Barathan and Muthumari went as a fact-finding team which said, ‘Servaaran’s death is not natural but a planned murder.’ Team members, who met journalists on 30.3.2007 in Chennai, shared several shocking pieces of information. On behalf of Dalit Murasu we met the panchayat presidents of Thevarkulam, S. Thangavelu, and of Navaneetha Krishnapuram, S. Gurusamy. Without guarantee to life, with fear writ large on their faces, they shared their concerns with us:

‘திருநெல்வேலி மாவட்டம், தேவர்குளம் பஞ்சாயத்துத் தலைவரா நான் இருக்கேன். தலைவரு ஆவதற்கு முன்னாடி கூலி வேல செஞ்சிட்டு சந்தோசமா இருந்தேன். ஆனதற்குப் பிறகு எப்ப சாவேன்னு பயத்தோட வாழ்ந்துகிட்டிருக்கேன். செல்லச்சாமி ரெட்டியாருதான் உதவி தலைவரு, வெள்ளத்துரை ரெட்டியாருதான் கிளார்க். இவங்க பக்கத்துல நின்னு பேசவே முடியாது. தூரமாகத்தான் நிக்கனும். எந்த மீட்டிங் நடந்தாலும் எனக்கு சொல்ல மாட்டாங்க. எனக்கு படிப்பறிவு கிடையாது. ஆனா, கிளார்க் கையெழுத்து மட்டும் போட கூப்பிடுவாரு. வார்டு மெம்பரு, உதவித் தலைவரு, கிளார்க் எல்லாரும் ஏலே தங்கவேலு, இங்க வா, போன்னுதான் கூப்பிடுவாங்க. ஆபிசுல ஒரு ஓரத்துலதான் உட்காரச் சொல்லுவாங்க. நான் பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆகி 6 மாசத்துல, 2 தடவ தான் சேர்ல உக்காந்திருக்கேன். அதுவும் அதிகாரிக வந்தப்பதான். செக்ல கையெழுத்துப் போடும்போது மட்டும்தான் கிளார்க் பேசுவாரு. என்ன, ஏதுன்னு கேட்டா கோபப்படுற மாதிரி பேசுவாரு. அதனால நான் எதுவும் கேட்குறதில்ல. நக்கலமுத்தன்பட்டி தலைவரு ஜக்கனும், மருதன் கிணறு தலைவரு சேர்வாரனும் இறந்த பிறகு ரொம்ப பயமா இருக்கு. 12 அருந்ததிய தலைவர்கள்ள இரண்டு பேர் போயிட்டாங்க. இன்னும் பத்து பேரு இருக்கோம். யாருக்கு எப்ப நாள் குறிச்சிருக்காங்கன்னு தெரியாது.’

‘I am Panchayat President of Thevarkulam in Tirunelveli district. I was a daily wage labourer before becoming president. I was happy. After becoming President, I live with the fear of dying at any time. Chellasamy Reddiar is the vice-president. Velladurai Reddiar is the clerk. I cannot stand near them and talk. I should stand at a distance only. They will never tell me if there is a meeting scheduled. I am not educated. The clerk will call me only to get my signature. The ward members, the vice-president, the clerk, all call me ‘Hey Thangavelu’ and order me around ‘come, go’ without any respect. They will tell me to sit in one corner of the office. In six months of being president, I have only sat twice in the chair. That too only when the officials came. The clerk talks to me only when my signature is needed in the cheque. If I ask what it is for, he will talk insultingly. So I don’t ask anything. After Nakkulamuthanpatti president Jaggan and Maruthankinaru Servaaran have died, I am very afraid. Of the 12 Arunthathiyar leaders, two have gone. Ten of us remain. We don’t know what dates they have marked out and for which of us.’

‘எம் பேரு குருசாமி. நான் நவநீத கிருஷ்ணபுரம் பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவரா இருக்கேன். நான் ஒன்பதுவரைக்கும் படிச்சிருக்கேன். நான் பொம்மைதான். எனக்கு எந்த பவரும் கிடையாது. எல்லாமே உதவி தலைவருக்கும், கிளார்க்குக்கும்தான். நான் என்ன சொன்னாலும் கேட்க மாட்டாங்க. மரியாதைங்கிற பேச்சுக்கே இடம் கிடையாது. ஆபிசு சாவி கிளார்க்கிட்டதான் இருக்கும். இன்னொரு சாவி எங்கன்னு கேட்டா, ஒரு சாவிதான்னு சொல்வாரு. ஆபிச கிளார்க் திறக்க மாட்டாரு. நான் தான் ஆபிச திறக்கனும். ஆனா, சாவிக்காக கிளார்க் வீட்டு வாசல்ல காத்துக் கிடக்கனும். அவரு வீட்டு வேலையை முடிச்ச பிறகுதான் எடுத்துத் தருவாரு.

‘My name is Gurusamy. I am Panchayat President of Navaneetha Krishnapuram. I have studied till ninth standard. I am only a puppet. I don’t have any power. It all belongs to the vice-president and clerk. They will not listen to anything I say. There is no room for talk about respect. The office key is with the clerk. If I ask where the other key is, he will say that there is only one key. He won’t open the office. I am the one who is supposed to open the office. But I have to wait at the threshold of the clerk’s house for the key. He will give me the key only after finishing his housework.

எனக்கு ஆபிசு செட்டப்பே இல்ல. நான் என்ன சொன்னாலும் எடுபடாது. என் ஆபிசுல ஒரு சேர், பழைய டேபிள், அது போக ரூம்ல பழைய டியூப் லைட்கள், வேஸ்ட் பேப்பர்கள், பிளாஸ்டிக், இரும்பு பொருள்கள்தான் இருக்கும். அங்கதான் உட்காரனும். பீரோ, நல்ல சேர், டேபிள் எல்லாமே கிளார்க், உதவி தலைவர் ரூம்லதான். கையெழுத்துப் போட மட்டும்தான் கூப்பிடுவாங்க. அதுவும் தீர்மான நோட்டுல பேசப்பட்டது எதுவும் எழுதாம, இடைவெளி விட்டுதான் கையெழுத்துப் போடச் சொல்வாங்க. ஏன் எழுதலன்னு கேட்டா, உன் சொத்த ஒன்னும் அபகரிக்க மாட்டோம், கையெழுத்துப் போடுன்னு சொல்வாங்க. நம்ம எதுவும் கேட்க முடியாது. கேட்டா உசுரோட இருக்க முடியாது.

I don’t have an office set-up. Nothing that I say will be taken up. In my officer, there is a chair, an old table, old tubelights, waste paper, plastic and iron things. I have to sit in that room only. The bureau, the good chair and table are all in the clerk and vice-president’s room. They only call me to sign. They will not write anything in the resolutions notebook and ask me to sign after a blank space. If I ask why they haven’t written anything, they will say, we won’t steal your property, just sign. I cannot ask anything. If I ask, I cannot stay alive.

உதவித் தலைவரும், கிளார்க்கும் வந்து நம்ம ஊரு மயான கரைக்கு ரோடு போடனுமின்னு சொல்லி, செக்குல கையெழுத்துப் போடச் சொன்னாங்க. நானும் கையெழுத்துப் போட்டேன். ஆனா கடைசியில ரெட்டியார் மயானக் கரைக்கு 2 கி.மீ. தூரம் ரோடு போட்டாங்க. அதிலிருந்து அரை கி.மீ. தூரம் இருக்கிற அருந்ததியர் மயானக் கரைக்கு ரோடு போடல. கேட்டா ஓடையில இறங்கி போய் எரிங்கன்னு சொல்லிட்டாரு. திடீரென்று கிளார்க் ஒரு நாள் 500 ரூபாவுக்கு கையெழுத்து போடச் சொன்னாரு. என்ன என்று கேட்டா, பழைய பிரசிடெண்டுக்கு சம்பள பாக்கின்னு சொன்னாரு. ஆனா அதுல 470 ரூபாய் பில்லத்தான் வச்சாரு. இதையெல்லாம் எதிர்த்து கேட்க முடியாது.

The vice-president and clerk asked me to sign a cheque, telling me that a road had to be laid to the cremation grounds of our village. I signed. Finally, they laid a road for two kilometres up to the Reddiar cremation ground. They didn’t lay the road to the Arunthathiyar cremation ground that is half kilometre away from it. When we asked, he said, you can go into the canal and burn the bodies. Suddenly the clerk asked me to sign a cheque for Rs. 500. When I asked what it was for, he said it was the salary arrears for the earlier panchayat president. Finally, he placed a bill for Rs. 470 only. I cannot ask anything against these things.

எனக்கு நவநீத கிருஷ்ணபுரத்துலேயே வீடு வாசல் இருக்கு. ஆனா, நக்கலமுத்தன்பட்டி ஜக்கன் சாரும், மருதன் கிணறு சேர்வாரன் சாரும் அடிச்சு கொல்லப்பட்டதற்கு அப்புறம் இங்க இருக்க முடியல. 15 கி.மீ. தூரத்துல இருக்குற பாவூர் சத்திரத்துல குடியிருக்கேன். சொந்த ஊருல இருக்க பயமா இருக்கு. கடந்த 26 ஆம் தேதி 10 அருந்ததிய பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவர்கள் சேர்ந்து கலெக்டரிடம் பாதுகாப்புக் கோரி மனுக் கொடுத்தோம். ஆனா, இன்னைக்கு காலையில ராமலிங்கபுரம் பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவர மேல்சாதிக்காரங்க அடிச்சிருக்காங்க. இன்னும் நவநீதகிருஷ்ணபுரத்துல ரெண்டு டம்ளர் முறை இருக்கத்தான் செய்யுது. நான் பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவரா ஆகி ஒண்ணும் கேட்க முடியலை. எப்ப என்ன நடக்குமின்னு பயந்துகிட்டிருக்கோம்.’

I have a house in Navaneetha Krishnapuram. But after Nakkalamuthanpatti Jaggan sir and Maruthankinaru Servaaran sir were beaten to death, I am unable to stay here. I stay in Pavur Chathiram which is 15 kilometres away. I am afraid to stay in my native village. On the 26th, ten Arunthathiya Panchayat Presidents asked the collector for protection for our lives. This morning, the Ramalingapuam Panchayat President was beaten up by people from the dominant caste. The two-tumbler system continues to be practised in Navaneethakrishnapuram. I have not been able to question anything after becoming President. We don’t know what will happen when, we are afraid.’

***

In response to the brutal attack on Thalaiyuthu Panchayat President Krishnaveni, this is the twelfth of a series of posts about attempts on the lives of dalit panchayat presidents. This attack has hospitalised an award-winning and popular elected leader and underlines the threat that caste poses to democracy. The Arunthathiyar Human Rights Federation’s statement on the issue is here and a poem by SRaj is here. There is also an interview with Panchayat President Krishnaveni, a fact-finding report on discrimination faced by Dalit Panchayat Presidents, a personal narrative from Jayanthi and Chellamma,  a complaint that murdered Dalit Panchayat President Jaggaiyan had written, and testimonies from the wife and son of murdered Panchayat President Servaaran. Ravichandran has written about responses to the attack on Panchayat President Krishnaveni. Here is a picture of Krishnaveni in Delhi.

Chellamma’s story

தலித் முரசு இதழில் மே 2008-இல் வெளியான விருதுநகர் மாவட்ட பழைய அப்பனேரி பஞ்சாயத் தலைவர் செல்லம்மாளின் நேர்காணலின் ஒரு பகுதி. முழு கட்டுரை இங்கே.

An excerpt from an interview published in the Dalit Murasu in May 2008 with Pazhaiya Appaneri Panchayat President Chellamma from Virudhunagar district. The entire article in Tamil is online here.

சந்திப்பு: மா. பொன்னுச்சாமி

Interview: M. Ponnusamy

உங்களைப் பற்றி சொல்லுங்கம்மா…

Tell us about yourself, ma’am…

எம் பேரு செல்லம்மாள். எனக்கு 45 வயசு ஆகுது. நான் பொறந்தது சங்கரன்கோவில் பக்கம் எலந்தகுளம். வாக்கப்பட்டது பழைய அப்பனேரி. எனக்கு ஒரு ஆம்பள புள்ள, பொம்பள புள்ள ஒண்ணு. பொம்பள புள்ள இறந்து போச்சு. எங்க வீட்டுக்காரர் தலையாரி வேலை பாத்தாரு. குழந்தைங்க சின்ன வயசா இருக்கும் போதே வீட்டுக்காரர் இறந்து போனாரு. 23 வருசமா இந்த ஊருலதான் நானும், என் பையனும் குடியிருக்கோம். என் பையன் பழைய பிரசிடெண்ட்டோடு தீப்பெட்டி ஆபிசுலதான் வேலை பாக்குறான். நான் கோவில்பட்டி கமலம்மாள் ஆஸ்பத்திரியிலதான் கக்கூஸ் கழுவுற வேலை பாத்தேன். 1500 ரூபாய் சம்பளம் கொடுத்தாங்க. ஏதோ துப்புரவு வேலை செஞ்சு குடும்பத்த ஓட்டிக்கிட்டிருந்தேன். ஆனா, நான் பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆவேன்னு கனவுலகூட நெனச்சுப் பாக்கல. இப்ப கொஞ்ச நாளா துப்புரவு வேலைக்குப் போகல.

My name is Chellamma. I am 45 years old. I was born in Elanthakulam, near Sankarankovil, given in marriage at Pazhaiya Appaneri. I had a son and a daughter. The girl died. My husband used to work as a village official. He died when the children were very young. My son and I have lived in this village for 23 years. My son works in the match factory of the ex-president. I used to clean the toilets in the Kovilpatti Kamalammal Hospital. I was managing the family by doing conservancy work. I did not think in my dreams even that I would become president. For some days now, I have not been going to do conservancy work.

துப்புரவுப் பணி செஞ்சிகிட்டு இருந்த நீங்க எப்படி பஞ்சாயத்து தலைவி ஆனீங்க?

When you were doing conservancy work, how did you become Panchayat President?

இந்த ஊருல 23 வருஷமா குடியிருந்தேன். என்னைப் பத்தி ஊர்ல அவ்வளவா தெரியாது. நான் பாட்டுக்கு கமலம்மாள் ஆஸ்பத்திரியில சுவீப்பர் வேலை பாத்துக் கிட்டிருந்தேன். எங்க ஊரு நாராயணசாமி நாயக்கருதான் பிரசிடெண்டா இருந்தாரு. ஆனா, இந்த வருசம் எங்க ஊருல குடும்பமாரும் போட்டிப் போட ஆரம்பிச்சாங்க. எங்க ஊரு ரவி நாயக்கருதான் குடும்பமார நிக்க வச்சாரு. ஆனா, அவங்களுக்குப் போட்டியா, பழைய பிரசிடெண்ட் நாராயணசாமி நாயக்கரு எங்க ஆளுகள நிக்கச் சொல்லி கேட்டாரு. ஆனா மருதன்கிணறு சேர்வாரன கொன்னது போல நம்மளையும் கொன்னுப்புடுவாங்கன்னு பயந்துகிட்டு யாரும் நிக்கல.

I have been living in this village for 23 years. Nobody knows much about me here. I was just minding my work as a sweeper in Kamalammal Hospital. Narayanasamy Naicker was president. In this year, the people of the Kudumbamar caste also started contesting. Ravi Naicker was the person who was making them stand for elections. To contest against them, ex-president Narayanasamy Naicker asked our people to contest. Since people were afraid that they would also be killed like Maruthankinaru Servaaran, nobody was willing.

ஆனா கடைசியில என்னை நிக்கச் சொல்லி கேட்டாரு. உனக்கு என்ன ஆனாலும் நான் பாத்துக்கிறேன்னு சொன்னாரு. அதனால நான் போட்டிப் போட்டு எலக்சனுல நின்னேன். நைட்டுல ஆஸ்பத்திரியில துப்புரவு வேலை. பகல்லதான் எலக்சன் வேலை. ஒண்ணும் பிரச்சினை வராதுன்னு சொன்னாரு. சரின்னு நின்னேன். ஆனா, நாயக்கமாரும், குடும்பமாரும் என்னைய திட்டாத ஆளில்ல. ஒரு சக்கிலியப் பொம்பள எப்படி எங்கள எதிர்த்து நின்னு ஜெயிக்கிறான்னு பாத்துருவோமுன்னு சொல்லி மிரட்டுனாங்க. இதனால் நான் பயந்துகிட்டு முடுக்கலாம் குளத்துல இருந்துதான் வேலைக்கு வந்து போவேன். அப்படியிருந்தும் 200 ஓட்டு எண்ணிக்கை வித்தியாசத்துல ஜெயிச்சுட்டேன்!

Finally, he asked me to contest. He said he would take care, no matter what problems may arise. That is why I contested. I would go for conservancy work in the night and election work in the day. He said there would be no problems. That is why I contested. Yet, among the Naicker and the Kudumbamar there was not one person who did not scold me. They threatened me saying, we will see how a Sakkili woman stands against us and wins. Since I was afraid, I would go to work via Mudukkalam Kulam only. I still won by a margin of 200 votes!

மலம் அள்ளக் கூடாதுன்னு அரசாங்கம் சட்டம் போட்டிருக்கு, ஆனா நீங்க போறீங்க?

The government has passed laws against manual scavenging, yet you go for this work?

அதப்பத்தியெல்லாம் எனக்கு தெரியாது. சரி அரசாங்கம் தடை போட்டுறிச்சின்னா உடனே நிப்பாட்டிடாகளா? இல்லையே. இதே கோவில்பட்டி பஸ்டாண்டுல அள்ளத் தானே செய்யிறாக. கக்கூஸ் கழுவத்தான செய்யுறாக. அரசாங்கம் அப்படித்தான் சொல்லும். ஆனா செய்யுறத செஞ்சுகிட்டேதான் இருக்கோம். வயித்த கழுவ கக்கூஸ்ச கழுவிதான் ஆகணும். ஏதோ ஆஸ்பத்திரியில வேலை செய்யப் போயி அப்பப்ப டெலிவரி கேசு வரும். அப்ப அவுகளுக்கு துணிமணி துவச்சு, எல்லா வேலையும் செஞ்சா 300, 400 கிடைக்கும். அதுதான் பொழப்பு. சட்டம் வந்து எதுவுமே செய்யாது. அங்க அங்க மீட்டிங்கில பேசுவாங்க, பேப்பருல வரும். ஆனா எதுவுமே நடக்கலையே. இதெல்லாம் சும்மா. இவுக சட்டம் போட்டு நமக்கென்ன ஆவப் போகுது? துப்புரவு வேலைதான் நிம்மதி.

I don’t know about all that. Ok, so if the government bans it, will they immediately stop? Oh no. Even in this same Kovilpatti Bus Stand, people do manual scavenging. And clean toilets by hand. The government will talk like that. We do what we have to do. To eat, we need to clean toilets. Since I go to work in the hospital, an occasional delivery case will come. So if I wash their clothes and do their work for them, I will get some Rs. 300, 400. That is my livelihood. A law cannot come and do anything. They will talk about it here and there in meetings. It will come in the papers. Yet, nothing has happened, right? All this is just for show. What is the benefit we get out of the laws they lay down? Sanitation work is our only peace.

பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆன பிறகு உங்கள மரியாதையா நடத்துறாங்களா?

After you have become president, do they treat you respectfully?

நான் துப்புரவு வேலை செய்யும் போதாவது எந்தப் பிரச்சினையும் இல்லாம இருந்தேன். ஆனா நான் பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆனது இங்க யாருக்கும் பிடிக்கல. எப்படி ஒரு பொட்டச்சி அதுவும் சக்கிலிச்சி நம்ம ஊரு பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆகலாமுன்னு பேச ஆரம்பிச்சாங்க. நான் பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆகறதுக்கு முன்னால எல்லாரையும் சாமி, முதலாளினுதான் கூப்பிடுவேன். இப்பவும் அப்படிதான் கூப்பிடுறேன். கூப்பிடணும். அது இங்குள்ள கட்டுப்பாடு. ஆனா, இந்த ஊருல சின்னப் பிள்ளையிலிருந்து பெரியாளு வரைக்கும் என்ன செல்லம்மான்னு பெயர் சொல்லித்தான் கூப்பிடுவாங்க. எனக்குன்னு எந்த மரியாதையும் கிடையாது. நான் சொல்றத யாரும் கேட்க மாட்டாங்க. பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆன பிறகு சேர்ல உட்காரக் கூடாது. நின்னுதான் பேசனுமுன்னு சொன்னாங்க. தாசில்தார், கலெக்டரு சொன்ன பிறகுதான் சேர்லயே உட்காருவேன். வெளியூர்ல என்ன தலைவின்னு கூப்பிட்டாலும் உள்ளூர்ல பேர் சொல்லிதான் கூப்பிடுவாங்க. வார்டு மெம்பருங்க, வைஸ் பிரிசிடெண்ட் எல்லாருமே பேரு வச்சி, வா, போன்னுதான் கூப்பிடுவாங்க. அவுங்கள எதிர்த்து எதுவுமே பேச முடியாது.

Atleast when I was doing scavenging work, I did not have any problems. Nobody liked the fact that I have become president. They say, how can a woman, that too a Sakkili woman, become president? Even before becoming president I used to call people Saamy or Muthalaali (literally: god or owner). I still do. I have to. That is the rule here. Yet, everyone from the children to the elderly of the village call me Chellamma only. I don’t get any respect. Nobody listens to what I say. After becoming president, I have not been allowed to sit in the chair. They would say that I should stand and talk. Only after the Tahsildar and Collector told me, did I begin to sit in the chair. Even if they call me President outside the village, inside they will only call me by name. The Ward Members, the Vice-President will all call me by name and say come, go, without using any respectful honorifics. I cannot talk anything against them.

நீங்க பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆகி என்னென்ன திட்டம் நிறைவேற்றி இருக்கீங்க?

What schemes have you carried out after becoming president?

நான் பிரசிடெண்ட ஆகி 9 மாசம் ஆகுது. இதுவரைக்கும் இந்த பஞ்சாயத்துக்கு ஒண்ணுமே செய்யல. எதுவுமே என்ன செய்ய விடல. எல்லாம் அவுக அதிகாரம்தான். நான் எதுவும் செய்ய முடியாது. வைஸ் பிரசிடெண்டும், வார்டு மெம்பரும் எல்லாம் கூட்டு சேர்ந்துகிடுவாக. நான் எது சொன்னாலும் எடுபடாது. ஏன்னா சக்கிலிச்சி சொல்லி நான் கேட்கவான்னு, பேசுவாங்க. இந்த 9 மாசத்துல என்னுடைய வேலை காலையில ஆபிசு வந்தா கணக்குபுள்ள வர்ற வரைக்கும் காத்திருப்பேன். அப்புறம் ஏதாவது ரசீது, பிறப்பு, இறப்பு கையெழுத்து கேட்டு வருவாங்க.

It has been nine months since I became president. Till date, I have done nothing for this Panchayat. They have not let me do anything. Power belongs to them. I cannot do anything. The vice-president and ward members will all gang up. Nothing I say will work. They will say, should I listen to a Sakkili woman? In these nine months, my work has been to go in the morning, wait for the accounts guy to turn up, then sign some receipts, birth or death certificates for people who ask.

அந்த கணக்குபுள்ள போடச் சொல்ற இடத்துல கையெழுத்த போடுவேன். அம்புட்டுதான். நான் கையெழுத்து போட்ட பிறகு வைஸ் பிரசிடென்ட்டுகிட்ட கையெழுத்து வாங்க நான்தான் அலையணும். அவ்வளவு சீக்கிரமா அவர் போடமாட்டாரு. பஞ்சாயத்து தோட்டி வேலை செய்றவங்களுக்கு சம்பள பில்லுக்கு செக்குல நான் கையெழுத்துப் போட்டேன். ஆனா மூணு மாசமா வைஸ் பிரசிடென்ட் கையெழுத்தே போடல. அவர எதிர்த்துப் பேச முடியாது.

I sign where he tells me to. That’s all. After I have signed, I will have to run around to get the vice-president’s signature. He won’t sign that easily. I signed the cheque for the wages of the conservancy workers in the panchayat. The vice president hasn’t signed it for three months now. I can’t even talk against him.

நம்ம நாட்டுல ஒரு பெண்தான் ஜனாதிபதியா இருக்காங்க, நீங்க அதே மாதிரி உங்க அதிகாரத்த பயன்படுத்தலையா?

A woman is a president of this country. Can you also try to use your powers in a similar way?

அந்தம்மா செய்யலாம். அவுக என்ன சாதியோ, யாரு கண்டா. ஆனா நாம பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆகி இந்த இடிஞ்ச வீடு, மிஞ்சிப்போனா கமலம்மாள் ஆஸ்பத்திரி கக்கூஸ். அதவிட்டா வேற பொழப்பு இல்ல. அதிகாரம் எல்லாம் உசந்த சாதிக்காரங்களுக்குதான். நமக்கு இல்ல. என்ன ஏதுன்னு எதுவுமே எதிர்த்துப் பேச முடியாது. எதிர்த்து கேள்வி கேட்டதுக்காகத்தான் ஜக்கனையும், சேர்வாரனையும் கொன்னுட்டாங்களே. ஆம்பளைகளுக்கே இந்த நிலமை. நம்ம பொம்பள. ஆம்பள துணை கிடையாது. எனக்குன்னு எந்த சப்போர்ட்டும் கிடையாது. என் மகன்தான் எனக்கு துணை.

That woman may be able to. Who knows what caste she is. After becoming president also, this broken-down house and the toilets of Kamalammal Hospital are my lot. I have no livelihood other than that. Power belongs only to the upper castes. Not to us. I cannot ask why. For the crime of asking why, they killed Jaggaiyan and Servaaran. That is the fate of men. I am a woman. I do not have male support. I do not have any support. Except my son.

இப்ப வரைக்கும் எனக்கு எதிர்ப்புதான். தண்ணி பிரச்சனையை பத்திப் பேசுனா உன் வேலைய மட்டும் பாருன்னு கோவத்தோடு பேசுறாங்க. ஊருக்குள்ள எங்கயும் நிக்க முடியாது, பேச முடியாது. எனக்கும், என் மகனுக்கும் பாதுகாப்பு இல்ல. வைஸ் பிரசிடெண்ட், வார்டு மெம்பராலத்தான் பிரச்சனையே. அதனால இப்ப சொந்த ஊருல இருக்க முடியல. பயந்துகிட்டு பழைய பிரசிடெண்ட்டோட தீப்பட்டி ஆபிசுல கடைசி ரூம்லதான் குடியிருக்கோம். ஏதாவது மீட்டீங்கின்னா சொல்லி விடுவாங்க.

Till now, I have only faced opposition. If I talk about the water problem, they angrily tell me to mind my own business. I cannot stand and talk anywhere inside the village. There is no protection for me or my son. The vice-president and the ward members are the problem. I am not able to live in my own village. In fear, we have to live in the last room of the ex-president’s match factory. If there is some meeting, they will let me know.

துப்புரவு வேலை செஞ்சதுக்கும், பஞ்சாயத்து பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆனதுக்கும் என்ன வித்தியாசம்?

What is the difference between doing conservancy work and becoming panchayat president?

துப்புரவு வேலை பார்க்கும்போது கை நிறைய சம்பளம் கிடைச்சது. நான் உண்டு என் வேல உண்டுன்னு இருந்தேன். யாரும் என்ன பகச்சுகில. ஆனா பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆன பிறகு குடிக்க கஞ்சியில்ல. நிம்மதியான தூக்கமில்ல. ரோட்டுல சுதந்திரமா நடக்க முடியல. சொல்லப்போனா சொந்த ஊருல குடியிருக்க முடியல. ஏன்டா பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆகுனோமுன்னு யோசிச்சுப் பாக்குறேன். ஊருக்கு நல்லது செய்யுறதுக்காக வேண்டி பிரசிடெண்ட் ஆனேன். என்னால எதுவுமே செய்ய முடியல. காரணம் தாழ்ந்த சாதி. உசந்த சாதிக்காரங்க செஞ்சாத்தான் ஏத்துக்கிருவாங்க. நம்ம செஞ்சா ஏத்துக்கிற மாட்டாங்க.

While doing conservancy work, I got a handful of wages. I kept myself to myself and my work. Nobody opposed me. After becoming president, I do not even have gruel to drink. I do not have peaceful sleep. I cannot walk freely on the roads. I cannot live in my own village. I wonder why I became president. I wanted to do good things for the village. But I haven’t been able to do anything. The reason is that I belong to a low caste. They only accept things that the higher caste people do. They won’t accept anything we do.

ஒண்ணு மட்டும் தெளிவா தெரியுது. என்னதான் தாழ்ந்த சாதி பதவிக்கு வந்தாலும் ஒண்ணுமே செய்ய முடியாதுன்னு தெரியுது. நீங்க எல்லாமே செய்யலாமுன்னு சொல்றதெல்லாம் சும்மா வாய்ப் பேச்சுதான். சக்கிலிய சாதியில பொறந்து அப்படியே சொல்றத கேட்டு நடந்தாத்தான் உயிரோடு வாழ முடியும். ‘குமுதம்’ புக்குலகூட என் படத்த போட்டு எழுதியிருந்தாங்க. எல்லா இடத்துலயும் மாரியாதையா நடத்துறாங்க, எல்லா நிகழ்ச்சிக்கும் கூப்பிடுறாங்கன்னு. ஆனா அது மாதிரி எந்த மரியாதையும் எனக்கில்ல. நான் ஒரு டம்மி. கையெழுத்துக்காகத்தான் என்னை பிரசிடென்ட்டா ஆக்கியிருக்காங்க.

One thing is clear. No matter if people of low caste come to power, they cannot do anything. All that talk about ‘you can do anything’ is just talk. A person born into the Sakkili caste can stay alive only if we listen to everything they say. They put my picture in the ‘Kumudham’ magazine and wrote about me – that everybody is respectful to me and that they call me for all functions. But I do not have any such respect. I am only a dummy. They made me a president just for my signature.

உங்க எதிர்காலத் திட்டம் என்ன?

What are your future plans?

கலைஞர் மகன் ஸ்டாலின் வந்து மீட்டிங் போட்டிருந்தார். போயிருந்தோம். அங்க பிரசிடெண்டுக்கெல்லாம் அடையாள அட்டை கொடுத்தாரு. அட்டை கொடுத்து என்ன புண்ணியம்? இங்க ஒரு திட்டமும் நடக்கல. அங்க இங்க மீட்டிங், கூட்டமுன்னு கூப்பிட்டுப் போறாங்க. ஆனா எதுவுமே பேச முடியல. எனக்குன்னு எந்த சம்பளமும் கிடையாது. 300 ரூபா எதுக்காகும்? செலவுக்கில்ல. கஞ்சிக்கே பணமில்ல. இந்தப் பதவியில இருந்து எந்தப் பயனும் கிடையாது. அதனால இந்தப் பதவியே வேண்டாமுன்னு முடிவு பண்ணிட்டேன். கமலம்மாள் ஆஸ்பத்திரியில மேல ஒரு மாடி கட்டி முடிக்கப் போறாங்களாம். திரும்ப வேலைக்கு கூப்பிட்டிருக்காங்க. அதனால பழையபடி கக்கூஸ் கழுவுற வேலைக்கே போகப் போறேன்!

Kalaignar’s son Stalin came and held a meeting. We went. They gave ID cards to all the Presidents. What is the virtue we gain from a card? No scheme has been implemented here. Here and there, they will call me for and take me to meetings. But I cannot talk anything. I do not have a salary. What is Rs. 300 useful for? Not for expenses. There is no money for gruel even. There is no use of being in this post. I have decided that I don’t want this post. They are going to build one more floor at Kamalammal Hospital, it seems. They have called me again for work. I going back to my old job of cleaning toilets.

***

In response to the brutal attack on Thalaiyuthu Panchayat President Krishnaveni, this is the eighth of a series of posts about attempts on the lives of dalit panchayat presidents. This attack has hospitalised an award-winning and popular elected leader and underlines the threat that caste poses to democracy. The Arunthathiyar Human Rights Federation’s statement on the issue is here and a poem by SRaj is here. There is also an interview with Panchayat President Krishnaveni, a fact-finding report on discrimination faced by Dalit Panchayat Presidents, a personal narrative from Jayanthi and a complaint that murdered Dalit Panchayat President Jaggaiyan had written. Ravichandran has written about responses to the attack on Panchayat President Krishnaveni.

Jayanthi’s Story

First published on the Irenees website
Coimbatore, July 2007

“My name is Jayanthi and I contested the Local body election from the reserved constituency of Thandakaran Palayam Panchayat, Avinashi Taluk, Coimbatore District of the State of Tamilnadu in South India.

In my constituency only women were allowed to contest. The other five contestants were also women and they do not know anything about the Panchayati Raj system or the election process. By fielding them the intention was that we should not win but be defeated. They feared that if we won, other party people would join us. But after the election there was no problem. All was over with the election.

I have been in the Self Help Group for the past five years. Now it is my sixth year. Although I was in the Self Help Group even during the time of the previous election I could not contest because it was a general constituency during that time. Only a male candidate contested, but could not win.
The reason for not contesting in the previous election and for contesting in the recent election is to be seen in the point of view of my skills and capacities. I have undergone many training programmes conducted by some NGOs on the Panchayati Raj Institution. While I was undergoing the training, I began to think about contesting the election so that I could do something tangible for the people. Mustering up a lot of courage I contested.

After I won the election as President and took over the office, we had some problem in selecting the Vice-President as it happens everywhere. He belonged to the dominant community. The matter was that if an uneducated person becomes the President, the Vice-President would assume all powers in his hands. He would be invariably from the dominant community. Often he would manipulate and assume all powers including the power to sign cheques. The President would be unable to exercise his power and cannot question him. He or she would have to simply sign the cheques and sit quietly. In such situations the Vice-President would be de facto President and the President would be reduced to the stature of a Vice-President. That’s why there is problem in electing the Vice-President every time. However our Vice-President follows our advice. Krishnasamy by name, he belongs to the Bayal Community. We take administrative decisions in a committee consisting of nine ward members.

Among the nine members five are Dalits and four are non-Dalits. One of the members becomes the Vice-President. The four ward members (non-Dalits) did not support the candidate we proposed as Vice-President. The Dalit representation was six including me. The Vice-President is chosen by election. All the ward members exercise their voting rights in electing the Vice-President. The President can support any one. When the President supports a candidate, problems can arise.

People invite me to public functions at the school. With regard to family functions such as boring the ears, marriages etc., even though they invite me they would look at me only as an untouchable. Even today it is the practice. I don’t go for such functions because I feel discriminated. When it comes to other public functions, they don’t show their feelings of discrimination so blatantly. They had invited me to the School Annual Day. They could not do any mischief there. They have even invited me to family functions as well. If the function is held at their homes, they show their feelings. When it is held outside in a hall, they don’t show their feelings openly. They consider that I am polluting only inside their house. If it is a Marriage Hall, they treat me well. They give respect to me as the President and freely talk with me. The basic factor is that our caste people work in their fields. So they would view us only that way.

I have an unforgettable experience that I want to share with you. It is regarding the allotment for ten Group Houses. We started constructing the houses according to the BPL list. The construction was done with good amount of cement and it has come up to concrete roofing. Somebody whom we do not know for sure-whether Scheduled Caste or Backward Caste – sent a petition under the name ‘public’ to the Chief Minister alleging that the President and Vice-President of not constructing good houses. “They are using mud only and so the CM should take proper action” was their contention.

The BDO came from the Collectorate. He called me and said: “President, a petition has come. So many such things usually come. In your case this is the only one. Don’t be scared. Those who are not in your favour will do a lot more like this. You don’t worry”. When I told him that we involved the engineer and did everything properly, he said, “Don’t care. You do your work.”

My husband helps me in taking the motor for repairing. You see when the motor in a pump set is out of order; I cannot carry it for repairing. I know it is not my job. But if I entrust that work with someone he may charge some commission for his work. Then the expenditure will go beyond the income. Even if I do not carry it myself, I have to go. Don’t I?

After becoming the President of the Panchayat a great change has occurred within me. My personal capacities like communication and leadership skills have developed to a great extent. In the past, I was involved in educating the people about exercising their voting rights. Now I have come to realize what power I have. I have to think about what to present before the Collector when I meet him. This election has taught me to think about how to relate to others and to a councilor.
I have already got training in preparing reports and book keeping while I was in the Self-Help Group. I don’t need any other training. Our clerk is now under suspension. So I take care of his duties also. During the last term, accounts for Rs.1, 28,000 have not been shown. The former President had transferred that amount to the clerk’s account and he had spent it for some other purpose without paying the electricity bills. Even for that expenditure proper bills have not been submitted. Now that the clerk has been suspended, I am looking after the accounts.”

***

In response to the brutal attack on Thalaiyuthu Panchayat President Krishnaveni, this is the fifth of a series of posts relating to attempts on the lives of dalit panchayat presidents. This attack has hospitalised an award-winning and popular elected leader and underlines the threat that caste poses to democracy. A statement on the attack issued by the Arunthathiyar Human Rights Federation has been reproduced here. A poem about the incident by SRaj is here. There is also an interview with Panchayat President Krishnaveni about the incident and a fact-finding report on discrimination faced by Dalit Panchayat Presidents.

Interview with Krishnaveni

‘தாழையூத்து ஊராட்சி மன்றத் தலைவர் திருமதி. கிருஷ்ணவேணி மீது கொலை வெறித் தாக்குதல்; சமூக அக்கறை கொண்ட கல்வியாளர்கள், எழுத்தாளர்கள், மனித உரிமை ஆர்வலர்கள், ஜூன் 18-19, 2011, ஆகிய தேதிகளில் மேற்கொண்ட கள ஆய்வு’ அறிக்கையிலிருந்து

Excerpted from the report on ‘Murderous attack on the Thalaiyuthu Panchayat President Mrs. Krishnaveni; Investigative field visit conducted by Collective of Socially Concerned Academicians, Writers and Human Rights Activists – Tirunelveli – on June 18-19, 2011’

“நான் பொறுப்பேற்றதிலிருந்தே பல பிரச்சனைகள், தெரு பிரச்சனை, ரோடு, தண்ணீர் பிரச்சனை, வீடு ஒதுக்கீடு பண்றது எல்லாமே பிரச்சனை தான். கூட்டமே நடத்த விட மாட்டாங்க. காவல்துறையின் உதவியுடன் தான் கூட்டமே நடத்துவேன். காவல்துறையிடம் புகார் மனு கொடுத்தாலும் உடனே நடவடிக்கை எடுக்க மாட்டாங்க. அவசரம்னு போன் பண்ணி கூப்பிட்டாலும், உடனே வரமாட்டாங்க. பால்துரை இன்ஸ்பெக்டர் எந்தப் புகார் கொடுத்தாலும் நடவடிக்கை எடுக்கமாட்டார். ஆனா மற்றவர்கள் கூப்பிட்டால் உடனே வருவார். குடியரசு தினம் அன்னிக்கு கொடியேத்திவிட்டு கிராம சபைக் கூட்டம் நடத்த ஏற்பாடு செய்து கொண்டு இருக்கும் போது துணை தலைவர் அவருடைய பினாமி ஆள் மூலம் இடது கையை பின்னால் திருப்பி முறுக்கி ஓடிச்சு விட்டார். பால்துரை இன்ஸ்பெக்டருக்குத்தான் போன் பண்ணினோம் வரவே இல்லை. அப்புறம் இதே ஆச்பித்திரியில்தான் வந்து சிகிச்சை எடுத்துக்கிட்டேன். ஆதித்தமிழர் பேரவை தான் வந்து ஆர்ப்பாட்டம் பண்ணினாங்க. ஏழைப்பேச்சு அம்பலம் ஏறலை. நம்ம சொல்றது எதையுமே கேட்க மாட்டாங்க.

From the day I took charge, there have been many problems, problems within streets, roads, water problems, housing allocation, everything was a problem. They would never let me conduct meetings. I had to hold meetings only with the help of the police. Even if I gave a complaint with the police, they wouldn’t take action immediately. Even if I phone and call for an emergency, they won’t come immediately. Inspector Paldurai would never take action for whatever complaint I gave him. If others called, he would come immediately. On Republic Day after the flag hoisting, I was making arrangements for the Village Council meeting, when the vice-president’s representative came and twisted my left arm over my back and broke my arm. We called Inspector Paldurai only, he never came. We came to this same hospital for treatment. The Athithamilar Peravai held a protest. The speech of the poor did not climb into the open. They will never listen to anything we say.

வெட்டும் போது ஏதாவது சொல்லி வெட்டுனாங்களா?

Did they say anything when they were attacking you?

பேசவே விடலை. தாறுமாறா தாறுமாறா வெட்டுனாங்க. அங்க ஒரு கழிப்பறை கட்டப் போறோம். ரொம்ப நாளா போராடி ஒரு கழிப்பறை கட்டப் போறாம். சுப்பு கோனாரு அண்ணன் பையன் ஆவுடையப்பக் கோனார் நாடார் பையன்களை brain wash பண்ணி கூட்டிட்டு வந்தாங்க. அன்னிக்கு ரொம்ப நேரமாயிட்டு ஆபீஸ்ல வேலை முடிய. 9.30 மணி ஆயிட்டு மறுநாள் ஜமாபந்தி இருந்ததுனால old age pension, அப்புறம் பட்டா, ரேஷன் கார்டு எழுதி கொடுத்திட்டு இருந்தேன். மாமா வேர இரவு வேலைக்கு போயிட்டாங்க. எனக்கு அன்னைக்கு periods வேறு. அதனால் என்னால் நடக்கவும் முடியலை, தலை சுத்தலா இருந்தது. அதனால ஆட்டோல போகலாம்னு சொல்லி கிளம்பினேன்.

They did not let me talk at all. They hacked at me blindly, from all directions. We were going to build a toilet. After a long struggle, we were going to build a toilet. Subbu Konar’s elder brother’s son Avudaiyappa Konar had brainwashed the Nadar boys and brought them along. That day, it had taken a long time for work at office to get over. It became 9.30 p.m. The jamabandi – settlement of land revenue – was to take place tomorrow. So I was writing out the old age pensions, patta and ration cards. My father-in-law had gone for night labour. I had my periods also on that day. I couldn’t even walk, was feeling dizzy. So I decided to take an auto.

வழக்கமாக போகின்ற ஆட்டோவா? வேற ஆட்டோவா?

Was it the auto you took usually? Or was it a different one?

நான் எப்பவுமே நடந்துதான் போவேன். அன்னைக்கு periods சமயம், மத்தியானம் வேறு சாப்பிடலை, தலைசுத்திற மாதிரி இருந்தது. நடக்க முடியலே கீழே விழுந்திருவேனோன்னு பயந்துதான் ஆட்டோல போவோம்ன்னு கிளம்பினேன். ஆட்டோக்காரன் வந்தான், கருப்பசாமி கோயில் திரும்பிய உடனே கூட்டமா அரிவாளோட வந்ததும் ஆட்டோக்காரன் ஓடிப் போயிட்டான். நானும் ஆட்டோவை விட்டு இறங்கப் போனேன். இறங்க முடியலை. எப்பவுமே அந்த இடத்துல கும்பலா ஆள் உட்கார்ந்து இருப்பாங்க. போலீஸ் கிட்ட எத்தனையோ தடவை அங்க ஆள்களை உட்கார விடாதீங்கனு சொன்னோம். உட்கார்ந்துகிட்டு கெட்ட வார்த்தையால பேசுவாங்க, கல்லைக் கொண்டு எறிவாங்க. அன்னைக்கு அரிவாள், கத்தியோட கூட்டமா ஓடி வந்ததும் ஆட்டோக்காரன் ஓடிட்டான். ஆட்டோக்குள்ள வைச்சி வெட்டுனாங்க பேசவே விடலை. வாயை மூடிட்டாங்க, கண்ணைப் போத்திட்டாங்க, வெட்டு அதிகமாக விழுந்தாலே கத்த முடியலை. எட்டரை மன்னிக்கு மேலே எல்லோரும் நாடகம் (டி.வி) பாக்கப் போயிடுவாங்க. நாடகத்திலே மூழ்கிடுவாங்க.

I always walk back. Since it was the time of my periods and I hadn’t eaten in the afternoon, I was feeling dizzy. I couldn’t walk and was afraid I would fall. That’s why I took an auto. The autodriver came. Immediately after turning at Karuppasamy Koil and the gang came with sickles, he ran away. I also tried to get out of the auto. I couldn’t. Always, there is a gang of men hanging around that place. I have told the police so many times, not to let men sit there. They would sit there and use obscene language and hurl stones at people. That day, when they came running with sickles and knives, the auto driver ran away. They hacked at me as I sat inside the auto. They didn’t let me talk. They shut my mouth and eyes. They were hacking at me so badly, that I couldn’t scream. It was past eight thirty, so everyone would have gone to watch the drama (T.V.). They would be lost in the drama.

அதுக்கு முன்னால உங்களைத்தான் வெட்டப் போறோம்ன்னு ஏதாவது சொன்னாங்களா?

Before the incident, did they say anything about attacking you?

அப்படி சொல்லலை. சொல்லியிருந்தா உஷாரா இருந்திருப்போம். ஜாக்கிரதையா இருந்திருப்போம். எங்க வீட்டுக்காரரைத்தான் வெட்டுவேன்னு சொல்வாங்க. ரோட்லே வைச்சி வெட்டுவோம்ன்னு சொன்னாங்க. கடைசியில அவரை இங்கிருந்து மாற்றம் பண்ணிட்டாங்க. என் பிள்ளைகளுக்கும் பாதுகாப்பு இல்லை. தலைவர் ஆனதில் இருந்த பிரச்சனை. அவங்க சொல்ற எல்லாத்துக்கும் சரின்னு ஜால்ரா அடிச்சிட்டு போயிருந்தா நல்லா இருந்திருக்கும் எந்தப் பிரச்சனையும் வந்திருக்காது. கள்ளத்தனம் பண்றதுக்கு, யாரையும் எதையும் தின்ன விட மாட்டேன் அதுதான் பிரச்சனை. நான் தேர்தலில் சுயேட்சையாகத்தான் நின்றேன். ஆதித்தமிழர் பேரவைன்னு இருக்கிறதே பதவி ஏற்ற பிறகு தான் தெரியும். எங்க சமுதாயம்ன்னு லேசா போவேனே தவிர பெரிய அளவில் இல்லை.

They didn’t say that. If they had, we would have been cautious. We would have been careful. They only said that they would attack my husband. They said they would cut him down on the road. Finally, he was transferred. My children have no protection. From the time I became president, there have been problems. If I had said ‘yes’ to everything they said and went along, playing the accompaniment, things would have been fine. There would have been no problems. I won’t let anyone do any thievery,  I won’t let anyone eat up anything. That was the problem. I had stood in the elections as an independent candidate. I had learnt of the existence of the Athithamilar Peravai only after taking up my post. Since they were of my community, I would go along a little but not much.

ஊர் மக்கள் ஆதரவாக இருப்பாங்க நீங்களே அவங்கிட்ட கேட்டுக்குங்க. நல்லா ஒத்துழைப்பு கொடுப்பாங்க. இடையில் நாடார் சமூகத்துக்கும் ஒரு சண்டை வந்தது. 2008-இல் சரோஜினி நாயுடு அவார்டு சோனியா அம்மாகிட்ட வாங்க டெல்லி  போயிருந்தப்ப சாதி சண்டைல விடலைப் பசங்களுக்குள்ளே சண்டை. தட்சணம்மாள் நாடாரோ ஒரு நாடார் அந்த சண்டைல எங்க சாமிய அடிச்சிட்டாங்கன்னு பிரச்சனை. அந்தப் பிரச்சனை நடக்கும்போது நான் டெல்லி போயிட்டேன். நான்தான் அந்த சண்டையைத் தூண்டிவிட்டேன் என்று என்னைப் பிடிக்காதவங்க சொல்லி, அந்த சாதிச் சண்டை விஸ்வரூபம் எடுத்துட்டு என்னதான் சரிசெய்து வைத்தாலும் அப்பப்ப இது புகைஞ்சிகிட்டே இருக்கும். (அருகில் இருந்த மகள் புவனேஸ்வரி: இப்ப கொடையில் கூட பிரச்சனை வந்தது. சும்மா இருந்த அம்மாவை எப்படி நீங்க இங்க வரலாம் எங்க கோயிலுக்குன்னு கேட்டாங்க. வேணி தொடர்கிறார்) மட்டமா மட்டமா அம்மணக்குண்டி அப்படி இப்படின்னு லேடீஸை கேவலப்படுத்துறாங்க. யாரு மேடம் சம்மதிப்பாங்க. இதுக்கெல்லாம் நாங்க பொறுப்பாக முடியுமா. பிரச்சனை வந்தது.

The people will support me, go and ask them. They would co-operate well. In between, there was a quarrel with the Nadar community. In 2008, when I had gone to Delhi to get the Sarojini Naidu Award from Sonia madam, there had been a quarrel among the adolescent boys during a caste-clash. It became a problem when Thatchanammal Nadar or some Nadar hit our god during the fight. I had gone to Delhi during this time. People who didn’t like me said that I was the one who had instigated the clash. Then that clash took on monstrous forms, and, however, much we tried to set things right, it kept smouldering. (Her daughter Buvaneswari is nearby and adds: Now there was a problem with the festival too. My mother was not doing anything and they came and asked her, how can you come to our temple? Krishnaveni continues) They would use such filthy debasing language, they would call the women ‘naked bottomed’, this, that. Who would accept such things, madam? Can we be responsible for these things? Problems came.

அதிகளவு உங்க பதவிக் காலத்தில் தொந்தரவு பண்ணது யாரெல்லாம்?

Who were the people who caused the most problems during your term?

இஸ்லாமிய சமுதாயத்தை சேர்ந்த சுல்தான். ஓடைப் பிரச்சனையில் சுப்பு போன வருஷத்துல இருந்து ரொம்ப தொந்தரவு பண்ணினாங்க. அப்புறம் நாடார் தான். நான் சொந்த ஊர் நாகர்கோவில் பக்கம். இங்குள்ள மக்கள் எல்லாருமே நாடார் வீடுகளுக்கு கல்யாண வீட்ல இலை எடுத்துப் போடுவாங்க. சுடுகாட்டுல குழி வெட்ட போவாங்க. இப்படி நாடார் சமூகத்துக்கு வேலை செய்வாங்க. நான் பதவிக்கு வந்ததும் அதுபோல வேலைகளுக்கு போக விடமாட்டேன். ஓடை தள்ற வேலை பார்க்கறதாலே இப்ப போக மாட்டாங்க. இது அவங்களுக்கு தாங்கலை. கோபம்.

Sulthan, who belongs to the Muslim community, only. In the problem of the canal, Subbu has been giving a lot of problems from last year. Then the Nadars. My native place is near Nagarcoil. All the people here go to the Nadar houses during weddings and remove the leaves that people have eaten from. They would go to dig holes in the cremation ground. They would do work for the Nadar community. After I took my post, I don’t let them go for such work. Since they do the canal digging work, they don’t go. Those people can’t stand this. They’re angry.

சுல்தான் ஒரு தடவை தேசிய வேலை வைப்பு உறுதித் திட்டத்தில் ஓடையில வைச்சி வேலை நடக்கும்போது அங்க அம்மணமா வந்து நின்னாரு. இப்படி வந்து நின்னா பொம்பளைங்க எப்படி நிப்பாக. அதுக்குக்கூட போலீஸ் எந்த நடவடிக்கையும் இல்லை. போலீஸ் காசு கொடுத்தா அவங்க பக்கந்தான் நிக்கும். அப்போ டி.பி.எம். மைதீன்கான் இருந்தார். அவர்ட்ட சொன்னேன். பூங்கோதை அம்மாட்ட சொன்னேன். நான் சுயேச்சையா நின்னேன். ஆனால் நான் ஆ.இ. அ. தி.மு.க. சார்பாக நிக்கிறேன்னு சொல்லி அந்தம்மாவையும் நடவடிக்கை எடுக்க விடாமல் ஆக்கிட்டாங்க. கருப்பசாமி பாண்டியனையும் பார்த்தேன். கஷ்டப்பட்ட சமூதாயத்தில இருந்து யாரும் வரக்கூடாதுன்னு நெனைக்கிறாங்க. கழிப்பறையை கட்டுறதை எதிர்த்து சுப்பு கோனார், அவருடன் சேர்ந்து மீரான், சுல்தான், எல்லாம் மிரட்டினாங்க. நாங்க முறையா அணுகினோம். RDOவிடம் கேட்டோம், தாசில்தாரிடம் கேட்டோம். இடம் இருந்தா தாராளமாக கட்டுங்க. இடம் முடிவு செய்தது மக்கள் தான். கோனார் ஆசாரி தேவர் எல்லா சாதியையும் சேர்ந்து தான் முடிவு பண்ணாங்க. இவர் சுப்பு கோனார் இடம் முக்கால்வாசி புறம்போக்கை பிடிச்சி வைச்சிருக்காரு. அதனாலதான் அவருக்கு இது புடிக்கலை.

Once when the National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme work was going on in the canal, Sulthan came and stood naked there. If he comes and stands like this, how will the women stay there? For that, too, the police did not take any action. If they give money to the police, they will be on their side only.  T.P.M. Maideen Khan* was in the government then. I told him. I told Poongothai* madam. I had stood as an independent. They told her that I had stood on behalf of the A.I.A.D.M.K. and made sure that she didn’t take any action. I went and saw Karuppasamy Pandian** also. They think that noone from the struggling communities should come forward. Subbu Konar, with him, Meeran and Sulthan, all threatened me against building a toilet. We went about it formally. We asked the RDO, the Tahsildar. They said, if there is place, go ahead and build. The people only decided the place. Konar, Asari, Thevar – all the castes came together and decided. Subbu Konar’s land is mostly encroaching on poromboke lands. That’s why he didn’t like it.

*Ministers in the DMK government of 2006-11
**DMK Member of the Legislative Assembly in the same period

(அவரால் தொடர்ந்து பேச முடியவில்லை. கடைசியாக அவர்,) நான் ரொம்ப தைரியசாலிங்க. ஆனால் பொம்பளைன்னு பாக்காம இப்படி தாறுமாறா வெட்டுனதுக்க அப்புறம் எனக்கு ரொம்ப பயமா இருக்கு. இனிமேல் எங்க சமூதயத்துல இருந்த யாராவது பொது வாழ்க்கைக்கு தைரியமா வருவாங்களா? பொம்பளையான என்னை வெட்டும்போது என் கணவர், என் பிள்ளைங்க கதி? என்ன பாதுகாப்பு இருக்கு? ரொம்ப பயமா இருக்கு (என்று கண்ணீர் விட்டு அழுகின்றார்)

(She is unable to continue. Finally she says,) I am a very brave person. But after they have hacked at me blindly, without even caring that I am a woman, I am very afraid. After this, will any person from our community come bravely to public life? If they hack me, a woman, what is the fate of my husband and children? What protection is there? I am very afraid. (She weeps)

***

தாழையூத்து பஞ்சாயத் தலைவர் கிருஷ்ணவேணியின் மீது நடத்தப்பட்ட கொடூரமான தாக்குதலைத் தொடர்ந்து, தலித் பஞ்சாயத் தலைவர்களின் மீது நடத்தப்படும் வன்முறைகளை முன்வைக்கும் வலைபதிவுகளின் மூன்றாம் பதிவு இது. அருந்ததியர் மனித உரிமை அமைப்பு வெளியிட்ட அறிக்கை இங்கே. இந்த சம்பவத்தை தொடர்ந்து எஸ் ராஜ் எழுதிய கவிதை இங்கே.

In response to the brutal attack on Thalaiyuthu Panchayat President Krishnaveni, this is the third of a series of posts about attempts on the lives of dalit panchayat presidents. This attack has hospitalised an award-winning and popular elected leader and underlines the threat that caste poses to democracy. A statement on the attack issued by the Arunthathiyar Human Rights Federation has been reproduced here. A poem about the incident by SRaj is here.

In conversation with Adhimoolam

திங்கள் சத்யா வினவு வலைதளத்தில் பதிவு செய்த இந்த நேர்காணலில் இருந்து

From an interview by Thingal Sathya on Vinavu.com

…
இடுப்பில் கோவணம், கையில் ஒரு மூங்கில் கழியோடு தள்ளாத வயதில் சேற்றில் புதைந்து கிடந் தார் அந்த மனிதர். வகைவகையாய் மனிதர்கள் தின்று கழித்த சேறு அது. கைக்குட்டையால் மூக்கைப் பொத்திக் கொண்டு இரண்டு கால் ஜீவன்கள் சிரமத்துடன் கடந்து கொண்டிருந்தனர். அருகில் நின்று பேச்சுக் கொடுத்தேன்.

…

With a loincloth around his waist and a bamboo stave in his hand, the old man was almost buried in the mud. It was mud that had been shat by humans after eating many varieties of food. With a handkerchief over their noses, two-legged beings passed by with great difficulty. I spoke to him.

“வயசானவன்னு பாக்கறியா! தொழில் சுத்தமா இருக்கும்” என்று ஆரம்பித்தார்.

“Are you worried that I am an old man? I do a clean piece of work,” he began.

“பேரு ஆதிமூலம். ஊரு மதுராந்தகம். எத்தினி வயசுன்னு எனக்கே தெரியாது. 53ல வேலைக்கு சேந்தேன். 96ல ரிட்டைடு ஆயிட்டேன். மூவாயிரம் ரூபா சம்பளம். மொத சம்சாரம் அம்மச்சி செத்துப் போனப்புறம் ரெண்டாவதா சந்திராவ கல்யாணம் பண்ணிக்கிட்டேன். மொத்தம் எனுக்கு நாலு பசங்க. ஒரு பையன் மூணு பொண்ணு. ஒரு பொண்ணுக்கு கல்யாணம் பண்ணிக் குடுத்துட்டேன். ரெண்டு பொண்ணுங்களும் இப்பத்தான் ஏழாவது, எட்டாவது படிக்குதுங்க. பையன் செரியான தண்டச்சோறு. அவனால ஒரு புரோசனமும் இல்ல. ஊரோட போயிட்டான். நான் ஒத்த ஆளு சம்பாரிச்சித்தான் இதுங்கள கரையேத்தணும். வயசாயிடுச்சி, ஒடம்புக்கு முடியலைன்னு ஒக்காந்திருந்தா சோறு சும்மாவா வந்துரும்? இப்பத்தான் கண் ஆப்ரேசன் பண்ணேன். அப்பவும் பார்வ செரியா தெரில. இந்த சிலாப தூக்குறேன். உள்ள “தண்ணி நிக்கிதா’ன்னு பாத்து சொல்றியா? கோச்சிக்காதே…” என்று உதவி கேட்கிறார்.

“Adhimoolam is my name. From Madhuranthakam. I don’t know how old I am. I joined work in ‘53. I was retired in ‘96. A salary of 3000 rupees. After my first wife Ammachi died, I married Chandra as the second. I have four children. A boy and three girls. I have given a girl in marriage. The other two are studying in the seventh and eighth standards now. The boy is a good-for-nothing. He is of no use at all. He has gone on the town. I am the only one who has to earn and bring these girls ashore. If I should sit down saying, ‘I am old and my body is weak,’ will rice come for free? I just did an eye operation. But I still can’t see properly. I’ll lift this slab. Can you see if the water is stagnating inside? Don’t be offended…” he asks for help.

“மாசத்துக்கு எவ்ளோ வருமானம் வருது. வேலைன்னா எப்படி வந்து உங்களைக் கூப்பிடுவாங்க?” ஏதோ… நானும் கேள்விகள் கேட்டேன்.

“How much do you earn in a month? How do people find you when they have work for you?” I just asked questions.

“”பென்ஷன் பணம் வருது. அத்த வச்சிகினு சமாளிக்க முடியல. எப்பனா ஒரு வாட்டிதான் இது மேரி (மாதிரி) அடைப்பெடுக்க கூப்புடுவாங்க. அடையாறு பீலியம்மன் கோயிலாண்டதான் ஊடு. கூட்டமா கீறதால பஸ்ல ஏறமாட்டேன். அவுங்கள கொற சொல்லக்கூடாது. நம்ப மேல நாறுது. போயி பக்கத்துல நின்னா யாருக்குத்தான் கோவம் வராது. அதான் எங்கயிருந்தாலும் நடந்தே ஊட்டுக்குப் போயிடுவேன். போற வழியில அங்கங்க சொல்லி வச்சிருவேன். எடத்துக்கு ஏத்த மாதிரி 100, 200 தருவாங்க.”

“The pension money comes. But we are not able to manage with it. It’s only once in a while that people call for work like this, to clear blocks in the sewers. My house is near the Adyar Peeliamman Koil. Since the buses are crowded, I don’t get on them. We can’t fault them either. I stink. If I should stand nearby, who won’t get angry? That’s why wherever I have to go for work, I walk home. I also tell places on the way, that I do this work. Depending on the place, they will give Rs. 100 or Rs. 200.”

“எப்படி இந்த வேலைக்கு வந்தீங்க?”

“How did you come to this work?”

“”எல்லாம் கெவுருமண்டு வேலைக்காகத்தான். நான் ஜாதில நாயக்கரு. போயும் போயும் இந்த வேலைக்கு வந்துக்கிறீயேடா?ன்னு எங்காளுங்க கேழி (வசைச் சொல்) கேட்டாங்க. எஸ்.சி. ஆளு ஒருத்தர்தான் இந்த வேலைல சேத்து உட்டாரு. ஆரம்பத்துல படாத கஷ்டமெல்லாம் பட்டேன். ஒரு நாளைக்கு ஒம்பது வாட்டி வாந்தியா எடுத்துக் கெடந்தேன். சோத்த அள்ளி வாயில வச்சாப் போதும், அப்பத்தான் எங்கங்க கைய வச்சி அள்னமோ அதெல்லாம் ஞாபகத்துக்கு வரும்.”

“All for a government job only. By caste, I am a Naicker. ‘Of all things, you had to go to this work,’ our people scold me. An S.C. man only got me this job. In the beginning I had to face all kinds of difficulties. I was vomiting nine times a day. I only had to take some rice and put it in my mouth, for the memory of where I had put my hands and what I had picked up with them to come to mind.”

“நாம இன்னாத்தான் சொன்னாலும் செரி, போடக் கூடாதெலாம் கக்கூஸ்ல போட்ருவாங்க. அப்புறம் அடச்சிக்கும். ட்ரெய்னேஜ் மூடியத் தொறந்தாப் போதும், ஆயிரக்கணக்குல கரப்பாம்பூச்சிங்க, பூரான், தேளுன்னு என்னென்னமோ ஓடும். பல்லக் கடிச்சிக்கினு உள்ள எறங்கிடுவோம். நின்ன வாக்குல காலால தடவித் தடவிப் பாப்போம். அப்பிடியே வழியக் கண்டுபுடிச்சி கண்ண மூடிக்கினு எறங்கிட வேண்டியதுதான். வேல முடியிறதுக்குள்ள பத்து பாஞ்சி தடவையாவது முழுவி எழுந்திருச்சிடுவோம்.

“However much we tell them, they will still put things they shouldn’t put into the toilet. Then it will become blocked. It’s enough to just lift the drainhole cover, thousands of cockroaches, centipedes, scorpions, all sorts of things will be scurrying around. Gritting our teeth, we’ll get in. Standing there, we feel our way ahead with our feet. Finding our way like that, we have to get in with eyes shut. Before the job is done, we’ll have to go in and out atleast ten-fifteen times.”

சாதாரணத் தண்ணியா அது. காதெல்லாம் சும்மா “கொய்ய்ய்ய்ய்ங்’ன்னு அடைச்சிக்கும். கண்ணு, காது, மூக்கு, வாயின்னு ஒரு எடம் பாக்கியிருக்காது. இன்ன பண்றது? சோறு துன்னாவணுமே!
எங்கூட வேல செய்ற ஆளுங்கள்லாம் சரக்குப் போட்டுட்டுத் தான் காவாயில எறங்குவானுங்க. வாங்குற சம்பளத்த குடிக்கே… அழிச்சிருவானுங்க. எனக்கு அன்னிலருந்தே பீடி, குடி ரெண்டுமே கெடையாது. அதனாலதான் இன்னிக்கி வரிக்கும் நான் உயிரோட கீறேன்.”

“And is that ordinary water? It just rushes ‘goiiiiiiing’ into the ears. Eyes, ears, nose, mouth, no place is left. What to do? We need rice to eat!
The men who work with me will only get into the sewers after getting drunk. They’ll wipe out their wages for drink alone. From those days, I have not had the habit of beedis or alcohol. That is why I am alive till today.”

“”இவ்ளோ கஷ்டமும் யாருக்காக? பொண்ணுங்களுக்காகத்தான். அதுங்களுக்கு காலா காலத்துல ஒரு கல்யாணத்தப் பண்ணிட்டேன்னா நிம்மதியா கண்ண மூடிடுவேன்.”

“And all these difficulties are for? My daughters only. If I can marry them off at the appropriate times, I can close my eyes in peace.”

Interview with Kancha Ilaiah

Excerpts from an interview published on Ambedkar.org and Roundtable.co.in

…
Kancha Ilaiah is a prolific writer in both Telugu and English. His book Why I Am Not A Hindu, a critique of Hindutva from a Dalit-Bahujan perspective, turned out to be a best seller. Here he talks to Yoginder Sikand about how ‘Dalitisation’ alone can effectively challenge the threat of Brahminical fascism parading in the garb of Hindutva.

Q: Tell us something about your background. How did you come to be involved in the Dalit-Bahujan struggle?
A: I was born in a village in a forest area in the Warangal district of Andhra Pradesh. The entire area had been given by the Nizam of Hyderabad to Mahbub Reddy, a local landlord, as his fief. My family belongs to the sheep-grazing Kuruma Golla caste. They had earlier migrated from Warangal proper to the forest belt. My grandmother had settled the village. After her death my mother took over the leadership of the caste. I was born three years after the Police Action in 1948. The communists were then very active in our area. In the course of the Telengana armed struggle they killed two people in our village—both were village Patels.

Because of the struggle, Mahbub Reddy began selling his lands off, and our caste people, who, till then owned no land at all, began buying small plots. So this was a time when the feudal system had begun disintegrating. Later, at school I came into contact with Marxists, with Marxist literature, and became involved in the students’ movement, and that is how I got involved in the struggle for justice.

Q: What or who has been the major influence on your thinking and your politics?
A: The most important influence on my life was the village in which I was born. As a child in the village I learnt how to breed sheep, till the land and make ropes, but what was particularly instructive was the interactions and contradictions between the different castes within the village—Kurumas, Kapus, Gowdas and Madigas. And it is this personal knowledge of the dynamics of caste that is central to my thinking and all my writings.

My mother exercised a seminal influence on my thinking, too. She was a strong woman and the leader of our caste. You see, among the Dalit-Bahujans, women have an important role within the family and the caste. They set the moral norms themselves, through interaction with the productive process and in the process of struggle with nature, unlike among the Hindus [Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Banias], where women do not work in the fields, and whose norms are dictated by an external agency—the Brahminical texts. My mother was in the forefront of the struggle against the forest guards who would constantly harrass the Kurumas and not allow them to graze their animals in the forest. In fact, she died in one of these confrontations, being fatally beaten up by a policeman while protesting against their brutality. She was then only 46 years old.

I’ve written a Telugu piece about my mother. It’s called The Mother’s Efforts And Her Struggle. There I have tried to show that it is not simply the big ‘political’ struggles against the state which alone are important. Rather, one should look at everyday struggles as well—in this case, a mother’s constant struggle to educate her children, challenging patriarchy, struggling with nature in the productive process, sustaining the culture of the caste. Most Marxist texts look only at grand ‘political’ struggles, party mode of struggles, struggles led by men. In my writings I have sought to also focus on micro struggles, the stories of ordinary people, including women.

…

Q. How would you envisage this project of writing Indian history from the point of view of Dalit-Bahujans as subjects, as the central actors?

A: To be honest, I am seriously opposed to the writing of what is called the ‘history of sorrow’—simply narrating all the oppression and sufferings that the Dalit-Bahujans have had to suffer under Brahminism, although that, too, cannot be ignored. But I feel that the more you cry, the more the enemy beats you. If you want to defeat the enemy, you cannot remain contented with merely critiquing him, because even in that case he is the one who sets the terms of discourse and you are playing the game according to the rules that he devises, so naturally it is he and not you who wins in the end. Thus, rather than dwell simply on our historical oppression or the dangers of Hindu fascism, keep the focus on the process of Dalitisation, and thereby set the terms of discourse and debate yourself. For that you have to present a Dalit-Bahujan alternative as a workable and better solution. If you don’t do so, and restrict yourself to simply criticisng Brahminism by quoting slokas from one Brahminical text or the other, they will put forward yet another sloka to disprove you. But if you write from the Dalit point of view they have no way to rebut what you want to say.

Central to that task would be re-writing Dalit-Bahujan history to show, for instance, their knowledge systems, their role in the productive process, their great contributions to the development of technology or in the realm of spirituality or how their societies afford women a much higher status than the Brahminic. Sati and dowry have historically been specifically Hindu problems never ours. So history re-writing will have to be informed with Dalit pride. You have to show that Dalitisation, and not Hinduisation, is the answer to our ills, because unlike Brahminism, which is rooted in texts that do not spring from real-world experience in the productive process, Dalitisation reflects the interaction of human beings with nature in the labour process.

Unless you present Dalitisation as a superior alternative, you can’t win the battle. Take the Buddha, for instance. His greatest contribution was not his critique of Brahminism, important though that was, but his founding of the egalitarian community of the faithful—the sangha—as a superior alternative to Brahminical caste society. Or take Marx for that matter. To my mind, his greatness lies not so much in his critique of capitalism but in his presenting a superior alternative in the form of a communist society.

 

Q: Have you attempted anything of this sort yourself?

A: I think you can see this in most of my writings. To give but one example, I wrote this piece on the leather-working Madigas titled ‘The Subaltern Scientists’ and another piece on the Madiga Dalits called ‘The Productive Soldiers’. Presently, I am working on a book dealing with the discoveries and inventions of certain Dalit-Bahujan tribes and castes. There’s so much to be done to recover Dalit-Bahujan knowledge systems. I mean, for instance, you would have to trace industrialisation in India not to Lancashire but to the Madiga wadas [localities], where the Madigas first perfected the art of turning raw leather into shoes, or to our barbers who invented the knife.

 

Q: One last question. What made you give your book the title Why I Am Not A Hindu? How was the book received?

A: I thought it was important for Dalit-Bahujans to make a powerful statement against the Hindutva propaganda that we, too, are Hindus. As for how the book was received, well, Dalit-Bahujans, of course, were very excited about it. Predictably, orthodox Brahmins were angry, but so too were some ‘socialist’ Brahmins. Actually, that did not surprise me at all, because they read Marx’s Capital just as they read the Vedas—reciting it—not a critical reading. But I did get quite a few responses from Brahmins in Tamil Nadu. They wrote to say that they had read a lot of Periyar, but he had only criticised them but never told them where they had gone wrong. They said that it was after reading Why I Am Not A Hindu that they discovered what was wrong with their religion and culture and how they must change if they are to survive.

 
Read the full interview here.